[Rob_H]

So, having briefly owned an XE, are you impressed enough to seek out another to buy? Or has the whole experience put you off?

Interestingly, despite only owning the XE for a matter of days, I did get a call from the sales department at my local Sytner Jag dealer, asking whether I'd consider a valuation for it against the price of a newer model. The phone call had resulted from an investigative inspection that I had booked earlier (and subsequently cancelled when it was apparent that the XE's history was suspect).

I was quite impressed with Jaguar's attentiveness in this regard, even if I did have to explain that the booking had been cancelled, and that I was not in an immediate position to replace the XE with any car, Jag or otherwise. Understandably, I would rather reach a point whereby I successfully emerge from the other side of this saga, before considering making any further deals.

Jaguar has always held a place in my heart as a Coventry lad, and I'm sure always will do.

As for whether I'll get another XE, well...it's not clear-cut, for me. I can quite easily list a series of areas in which the XE beats my BMW (chief among them are the running costs ie: tax + fuel economy; stunning exterior looks; gadgets; safety features and so on). In the event that I do bag another XE, I think I'd choose to go down a more legit route, ie: an approved used car from a main dealer. Ideally with a more up to date navigation system, better sound system, and the updated and improved interior build quality. Doesn't sound unreasonable, right??

In any case, my confidence has been a bit dented (and my pride admittedly a little bruised). Any lingering discontent is borne only towards "bad actors" in the trade, rather than towards the brand or the model itself.

 

[BOBCDP]

Pleased to hear you got it sorted

 

[Rob_H]

Pleased to hear you got it sorted

@BOBCDP, cheers chap!

Sorted for now.

Will find out within 14 days whether I'll be taking matters further!

 

[Fighterpilot]

14 Days are passed. To bounce an oldish thread, have you got a full refund and everything sorted to your satisfaction?

 

[Rob_H]

14 Days are passed. To bounce an oldish thread, have you got a full refund and everything sorted to your satisfaction?

Thanks for keeping my mini-saga in your thoughts, @Fighterpilot. Much appreciated.

At least 14 uninterrupted days have indeed now passed and the full refund remains outstanding, sadly. I do have my old car back, but no monetary portion. This of course means that I'm in no position to buy another car at present.

I had to check the exact wording in the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and take additional qualified advice for clarity on the terms used.
The reason for that is that I notice that the Refund Invoice (the trader's agreement of my refund) wrongly features the wording "14 working days". This in itself is an attempt to restrict my consumer rights (whether deliberate or inadvertent) and is rightly being raised by Trading Standards officers.
However, since I did agree and sign the document in the moment, I am prepared to grant the trader this additional grace period of a few extra days.

It is important - should this ever go to court - that I am seen to be reasonable and amicable, and to explore every possible avenue in order to try to get the matter resolved before resorting to legal action.

I already have a follow-up letter typed and poised to send on the 22nd June, in the event that the 14 working days expire and no money is received.

 

[BOBCDP]

Hope you get your money back very soon Rob.

 

[Rob_H]

Hope you get your money back very soon Rob.

Thank you kindly, @BOBCDP. You are a true gentleman.

 

[bik3rz]

as you say, you will be seen as reasonable etc, by doing so, in case of going to court, hopefully not!!

fingers crossed.

 

[Ian0304]

What a horrendous experience. Let’s hope it’s resolved swiftly. Is the Jag back up for sale?

 

[Fighterpilot]

Let this be a lesson for all. DO NOT BUY from a trader of all marques and master of none. I hope you get your money back. Don't forget to use baniking cash back. Go for the jugular in court if necessary. I wish you well.

 

[BOBCDP]

Of course it also begs the question can you put any reliance on Online Service Records being genuine when you look at history? It seems not if Dealer stamps can be fiddled. Someone with access to the system must have uploaded them. Give me a book with stamps in every time!!

 

[PaulTolga]

Give me a book with stamps in every time!!

This may have been discussed here before, but I agree.
The move to online records only is nonsense for cars in the real world that last 15 years.
My 2005 S Type (a beautiful late model V6 Sport that I still miss to some degree) is still on the road with 124k miles and passing its MOTs.
I see how it helps the manufacturers but it is not good for anyone who wishes to have their car serviced elsewhere (pretty much most people).
It is very hard to replicate/fake an oil stained set of receipts and a log book with the usual variability of stamps over the months and years. These things, when seen live, are proof of service history. The online thing is not a good solution to the full lifecyle of most cars in the real world.
Plus, having seen how bad the smaller manufacturers are at software, and knowing more than a little something about where JLR have their IT systems and their associated capacity issues, I do not trust them to be robust over time. Paper has been used for documents of record for a long time. And for good reason. It's why HMRC, as an example, still have a strong letters comms channel. It will never go completely. Paper has its place.

Good luck Rob. Rogue traders exist all over the place. Sadly 😕

 

[Rob_H]

as you say, you will be seen as reasonable etc, by doing so, in case of going to court, hopefully not!!

fingers crossed.

Thanks @bik3rz. Apparently any court expects that every other alternative will have been actively explored and exhausted by the "combatants" first. All while deploying as much goodwill as possible. If I'm seen to be consciously doing all of this, it should - in theory - stand me in very good stead.

 

[Rob_H]

Of course it also begs the question can you put any reliance on Online Service Records being genuine when you look at history? It seems not if Dealer stamps can be fiddled. Someone with access to the system must have uploaded them. Give me a book with stamps in every time!!

Apologies for not having caught up with the most recent responses, guys.
So, I think you may have misunderstood the basis for my original complaint, @BOBCDP. There is no suggestion that any unauthorised person has accessed and fiddled Jag's Online Service Records. The reason I say this is that I created an "observer's" account myself and was able to see the true, Jag-authorised, official service history. It indicates just a single service at a main dealership.

What I was handed in the process of buying the car was purportedly a printout from Jag's own Online Service Records. It featured a whole list of services, all at approximately the correct intervals. I accepted this printout in good faith at the time.

Thus it was very easy to quickly establish that the printout I had been given did not remotely match the actual, verifiable service history held by Jaguar's systems. I also confirmed that this was the case by contacting a number of dealerships directly ie: the ones at which these "phantom services" were said to have been performed.

 

[IvorB1H]

So in this instance it was the paper that was fiddled not the online history?

 

[Rob_H]

So in this instance it was the paper that was fiddled not the online history?

That's right @IvorB1H. Demonstrably so.

I didn't know about any general move towards online service history logs, and so I took the printout at face value. It featured the proper Jaguar headings and logos, and even - remarkably enough - a spelling error that appears within the footer of the real printout.

 

[RoJo]

Did the VIN match on the printout?

 

[Rob_H]

The most distressing part of the whole sorry affair is not even the original complaint, albeit one that the trader only grudgingly accepts. It is that the company is going out of its way to be obstructive, uncooperative, unprofessional, stalling, diverting from the real issues. That's assuming I get much more than mere grunts out of them at all.

They seem determined to want to make me feel hugely uncomfortable and to ensure that I know full well that I am causing them great hardship.

They easily take the cake for the absolute worst customer service I have ever experienced in my 44 years on this Earth.

I hope that no-one else has to face a similar fate. If and when I get my money back, I may well then start escalating complaints to the DVLA, AutoTrader and so on. I don't wish this on anyone else.

 

[Rob_H]

Did the VIN match on the printout?

Yeah @RoJo, the VIN on the fabricated printout matches the car itself, and also matches Jag's online records. At the time, I had no reason to doubt the printout's veracity.

It was only when reading the warranty's T's & C's that I noticed it would only be valid if the manufacturer's full servicing stipulations had been carried out properly.

It was at this point that I became Hercule Poirot...

 

[PaulTolga]

What a salutary tale. So it turns out that a printed online history is far easier to fake than a set of oil stained receipts. Not a surprise, and shows how easy fraud is.
Jaguar's ones tend not to be quite as grubby as the ones from my local garage, of course, but a log book with stamps and collection of bills is harder to make up credibly.
Of course, it was not possible in the past to buy a car unseen as you needed to see the service history before transferring the money. I have done it myself many times.
A lesson for all of us, here. This problem is not going to go away in the future.