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Discussion Starter · #121 ·
What a salutary tale. So it turns out that a printed online history is far easier to fake than a set of oil stained receipts. Not a surprise, and shows how easy fraud is.
Jaguar's ones tend not to be quite as grubby as the ones from my local garage, of course, but a log book with stamps and collection of bills is harder to make up credibly.
Of course, it was not possible in the past to buy a car unseen as you needed to see the service history before transferring the money. I have done it myself many times.
A lesson for all of us, here. This problem is not going to go away in the future. :confused:
A cautionary tale indeed, and one that has taught me a very painful lesson.

If a similar situation arises next time, I will ask to take a copy of the service history away with me to personally verify, before returning later to pay for the car (or decline it, as the case may be).

But even taking that extra security step, one wonders what other potential pitfalls I might be missing.
 

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Unfortunately so there will and has always been those that are willing to deceive in order to obtain some form of advantage.

the fact that they are trying to make the OP feel bad about their hardship indicates the type of business they are, if they cared then they would be devastated that this fabrication occurred on their watch.

The fact is you aren’t actually causing them any issues at all they have the merchandise and can presumably re sell it for around the figure they sold it to you just with a more accurate advert ! You are the one out of pocket that money is either in their account accruing interest or has been spent on additional stock / wages / drugs whatever
 
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Just a point to make here regarding stamped service books. On TV some time back a programme called "Call the Bailiffs" went in aid of a situation like Rob's where money wasn't refunded. They found loads of blank logbooks for all makes and a piles of rubber stamps for various garages. They were creating log books. Indeed the VW dealer I used would always enter the wrong grade of oil, even though I supplied the correct grade. Paper records are no better. Unfortunately I see this going the full way inc Bailiffs. Give them 5 working days to refund then slap in a County Court claim. Keep a close eye on their business and photograph stock on the forecourt. They have a habit of chaning names and closing a company, then setting up a new company operating from the same site with all the cars already held. The next ploy is to say they bought the stock from the other company. The Bailiffs soon get that one sorted and take cars to the value to be sold at auction and the claiment gets their money back.
The Rover dealer I used for many years (they became the JLR dealer and now Volvo) used to change the style and colours of their logbook stamps as originals would occasionally wander. That way they knew what period a stamp colour was used.
 

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Checking the OSH yourself is vital for any purchase. Only the VIN is needed (from seller or pic taken of plate in dash), no registration required.

I'd be curious to see what the printed date is at the bottom of the service history was. If the date was after the dealer took initial possesion of the car, that would be proof of their foul play.

Pic attached of my last Xe's service history which I've just downloaded, note printed date bottom right.

Font Rectangle Screenshot Number Parallel
 
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I did indeed misunderstand. I thought you had accessed the online service records and discovered they were false by contacting the various dealers. Good to know that is not in fact the case.
 
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Discussion Starter · #126 ·
Checking the OSH yourself is vital for any purchase. Only the VIN is needed (from seller or pic taken of plate in dash), no registration required.

I'd be curious to see what the printed date is at the bottom of the service history was. If the date was after the dealer took initial possesion of the car, that would be proof of their foul play.

Pic attached of my last Xe's service history which I've just downloaded, note printed date bottom right.

View attachment 12328
Thank you @RoJo. The date shown on my fabricated printout is in early April which may or may not be a date on which the car was in the possession of the trader. Could be of critical importance at a later date.
Notice the “ownership” spelling error in the bottom-left corner of even the real document. Faithfully copied onto the fake sheet. Perhaps as “trap streets” were incorporated into maps to identify forgeries.
 

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Paper records are no better.
They are not foolproof, most certainly. It just that creating a fake electronic document is so very easy. I could do it. Electronic protection is common on e-signatures on some forms of contract (I use such things for Government contracts) but not for something like this. Yet!
Going to the trouble of creating fake paper receipts and log books takes more traditional creativity. But you're right, it can certainty be done if you're committed. Fraud like this is rarely done by people who are stupid, unfortunately.
 
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Thank you @RoJo. The date shown on my fabricated printout is in early April which may or may not be a date on which the car was in the possession of the trader. Could be of critical importance at a later date.
Notice the “ownership” spelling error in the bottom-left corner of even the real document. Faithfully copied onto the fake sheet. Perhaps as “trap streets” were incorporated into maps to identify forgeries.
Probably just a copy of a genuine service history with the vehicle details edited
 
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Rob,
Crazy saga. Of course the disreputable trader will post the check on the very last day to squeeze out a few more coppers of short term interest before returning your funds :-(. Once their reimbursed funds are safely in your bank account, I think concisely worded online negative reviews of this guy are totally in order. Good luck as we all count down for you with our fingers crossed!
 
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Any stationers will make up stamps for stamping paper records. New unused service books are available in many places. The point is that online service recording should be foolproof and the buyer not having to be 007 reading hidden codes. The photo in Rojo's post with all those areas where servicing has been "done" would make me suspicious as it cover most of the country.
 

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Discussion Starter · #131 · (Edited)
Probably just a copy of a genuine service history with the vehicle details edited
Having used a genuine one as the basic template does look likely, in addition to using the verified MOT history.

As mentioned, the dates + mileages given for each "phantom service" on the faked printout precisely match the dates + mileage values on the government's official MOT history. This is despite the MOT tests having been performed in towns many miles from the claimed services at main dealerships. Therefore the odometer values cannot possibly tally.

Furthermore, I notice that the faked service history printout does not use Jaguar's very unique typeface that features on Jaguar's OSH. One couldn't possibly be aware of this without seeing the real & fake versions side-by-side.

@PaulTolga, I've no doubt that there are some very sophisticated operators who are able to game the system. However, in my case, it was very easy to uncover the deceit because the perp didn't cover their tracks sufficiently.

It's been very obvious to me that the trader doesn't know his responsibilities, is totally incompetent at paperwork, and is hugely embarrassed at being caught with his pants down.
 

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Be very interesting to see if the garage tries to resell it again and what the ad says or if they just get rid of it in the trade
 

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Rob_H, was it 14 working days or still nothing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #134 ·
Rob_H, was it 14 working days or still nothing?
Still nothing - even after the 14 working days have elapsed - I'm afraid to say, @bik3rz.
No refund, no explanation, no communication.
A new 1st-class signed-for letter is being sent to them today, giving them a further extension of 7 straight days.

Needless to say, I hope you and the whole crew here at xeforums are all well? The weekend is now just about in sight. :)
 

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Still nothing - even after the 14 working days have elapsed - I'm afraid to say, @bik3rz.
No refund, no explanation, no communication.
A new 1st-class signed-for letter is being sent to them today, giving them a further extension of 7 straight days.

Needless to say, I hope you and the whole crew here at xeforums are all well? The weekend is now just about in sight. :)
we are much better than you for sure...as IvorB1H said, I would use solicitor from now on
 

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Discussion Starter · #137 ·
we are much better than you for sure...as IvorB1H said, I would use solicitor from now on
Your stellar support is greatly appreciated, guys. Thank you.

Citizen's Advice recommended today's letter (containing an additional deadline extension and references to ADR mediation services). It's what's known as "Pre-Action Protocol". This should all help my cause if I ultimately need to resort to litigation.

If today's letter fails, they advise me that the next stage will be a formal Letter Before Action. At that point, I can bring in the support of a solicitor and his headed paper.
 

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Your stellar support is greatly appreciated, guys. Thank you.

Citizen's Advice recommended today's letter (containing an additional deadline extension and references to ADR mediation services). It's what's known as "Pre-Action Protocol". This should all help my cause if I ultimately need to resort to litigation.

If today's letter fails, they advise me that the next stage will be a formal Letter Before Action. At that point, I can bring in the support of a solicitor and his headed paper.
Have you been in contact with them over the phone?
 

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Discussion Starter · #139 ·
Have you been in contact with them over the phone?
Not since the 30th May, to advise them that I would be returning the XE later on that date.

I have found them to be ridiculously uncooperative and stubborn over the phone, which is why I ensure that I diligently put everything in writing. My original complaint, the legislation, my rights, the events, any discussions held, the intended process etc.

If I get any verbal feedback at all - beyond mere grunts - it is usually just to fob me off.
 

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Problem is if you take too long to get a legal ‘team’ letter out and they decide to dissolve the business then you’re screwed the sooner you take proper legal action the better imho but that’s based on inter business non payment of invoices and having to get winding up petitions in etc.

methinks the same principles will apply between a customer and seller though?
 
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