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Stop/Start again a few thoughts

253K views 898 replies 111 participants last post by  PhilB 
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#1 ·
I made an observation over the past 24 hours. Yesterday we had a run out of 125 miles along fast A roads and motorways along with a few slower A roads due to speed restrictions. The stop/start more or less packed up about 4 weeks ago, which I put down to short journeys and the DPF filter not having chance to regenerate properly. So after the run I expected the S/S to function correctly. No, it didn't. Today I got back in the car and for once did not connect the phone to the USB. The first journey there was no S/S working but coming back home it functioned every time. As I was near the dealer I was going to get it in to have it looked at. When it started working again I decided not to book it in. The question here is because I was so near the dealer and the car was parked within a few hundred yards from the dealer for around 40 minutes. Now can the car electronically link to JLR near a dealer and be checked over?? I don't know. Can the phone actually be blocking any updating if the acceptance of connection to JLR is not granted? Really strange situation that the S/S works faultlessly for weeks on end then just packs up. I have kept the battery topped up fully with a CTEK charger, so it is not battery related. The car should have cleaned the DPF on the first part of the larger journey at 63 miles. The only other thing I can think of was that I had the aircon on all the time but switched it out this morning. In the past the aircon made no difference whatsoever as long as the battery and DPF were 100%. Any thoughts again on the subject??
 
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#2 ·
I've come to the conclusion it's pure witchcraft!
As you say we all know about cold engines, low batteries and ambient temps etc etc stopping it working but on my newbie it actually tells you if it's unavailable.
I get a logo on the screen to say if it's unavailable and a different one if I've switched it off.
Fair enough.
But several times I've seen the "unavailable" logo when restarting the car when it's fully warmed up.
Battery is virtually brand new and the weather is warm.
As I said in a previous thread if I see that it just reminds me to switch it off anyway.
:lol:
 
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#3 ·
I have just looked at my journeys list and notice today's first trip was around 200 yards late starting. I wonder if that has something to do with things going wrong with the S/S. :?
 
#4 ·
Still acquiring satellite signals for first 200 yards?
 
#6 ·
Vespa said:
Indianajons said:
Still acquiring satellite signals for first 200 yards?
It has never done it before so it must be a glich.
No, no, no.
Don't forget, the XE never has a "glitch".
They are called "features"............... :mrgreen:
 
#8 ·
Vespa said:
Or if it was the BBC, QUIRKY, which all the naff programs my wife likes use the word. :lol: :lol:
Ah!
The unbiased BBC!
:roll:
One thing that really gets my goat with a lot of the stuff on there is younger so-called experts who start every sentence with "So" and then every sentence is separated by the word "like".
Must be a university thing.
:ugeek:
 
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#9 ·
PhilB said:
Vespa said:
Or if it was the BBC, QUIRKY, which all the naff programs my wife likes use the word. :lol: :lol:
Ah!
The unbiased BBC!
:roll:
One thing that really gets my goat with a lot of the stuff on there is younger so-called experts who start every sentence with "So" and then every sentence is separated by the word "like".
Must be a university thing.
:ugeek:
And "stuff" along with non bias reporting and at least 2000 sports presenters. Watch BBC 2 News at 11.00 am everyday to meet the staff from the whole of the BBC ( Bullshit Broadcasting Club)
 
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#10 ·
After a deep recharging of the battery with the CTek charger in AGM/ Regen mode the stop /start has worked everytime since even after just a few hundred yards from cold. I delved into the scientifics of these new batteries that are now in modern cars and they seem to require a special charge and regeneration at least once every 12 months or more if not getting good charging from longer trips. They were originally developed for use in aircraft to avoid acid leakage. I suspect JLR have realised this after replacing hundreds of perfectly good batteries for no reason other than a regeneration charge. My car is booked in next week for 2 days to have the battery charged and to see if the charge holds overnight. I am sure it will now as I carried out the regeneration charge on Saturday and it took 9 hours to complete. Normally it takes about 3-4 hours to top it up.
The assessment in my starter post was off mark as the battery could not get to it's peak charge even after such long runs, until the regeneration was carried out.
 
#11 ·
After having had the battery/stop-start related updates applied at last service in November, I had high hopes that prolonged periods of the disappearing act would be at an end. Alas, it lasted a month or so and then bye bye; occasionally reappearing the first couple of journeys after a minimum of 200 mile round trips. Even after an 800 mile round trip to Newcastle and Ambleside, it re-appeared at the end of the last leg and only stayed for the next two short trips.

In the original thread on this topic several owners reported no such issues, irrespective of journey pattern, which make me think it's down to a faulty component affecting some vehicles but whether it's worth depositing the car with the dealer for several days for further investigation I doubt. Unless someone can pinpoint the component that needs to be replaced then I'll live or die with it as it is.
 
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#12 ·
Bluefire, I can confirm 100% that the regeneration has solved my problem with the S/S. It's a shame it has to be done but my dealer says that they do the same to get the S/S working again. The battery is one which needs gas released every now and again from the plates. The regeneration does this. It took 9 hours to charge mine and regenerate it. I got my C-Tek MXS 5 from Amazon at £58. I will say that really we shouldn't need to do this but that is how these batteries work. Charge is not continually put from the alternator into the battery, only when the battery management system lets it. Nothing like older cars.
 
#13 ·
Thanks for the reply Vespa and being an end user totally, I bow to your superior technical knowledge. This said, it still mystifies me why other users appear to have no issues, yet make no mention of regenerating their battery every couple of months or why the manual makes no mention of the need or why the dealer does not offer it at service (at an additional cost of course). If the stop/start needs more battery charge and the battery management system won't let it have any, it sounds to me like the manager needs sacking.
 
#14 ·
I was having a read through this post earlier as I really had no idea at all how the Stop/Start technology works or in my case doesn't work as I switch it off as soon as I get in the car.

Our of interest and a having a couple of hours to spare (good this retirement thing) I did some further reading on other sites and found out quite a lot of stuff I wasn't aware of.

According the this link: (http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/technology/start-stop-system) during acceleration and normal driving the system stops the alternator charging the battery which then has to run all the electrical load and is therefore discharging until it gets to a level at which the alternator is told kick in again. It also says that even with a partially discharged battery, the Stop/Start should still operate when required.

When you brake, the system uses the energy produced to send a charge to the battery. This must be similar to the KERS system used on F1 cars.

All good so far but why are so many people getting problems with Stop/Start and why on earth when you have bought a top quality, state of the art, modern car, should you need to go to Amazon and buy a special charger to keep the battery in good condition?

This link goes back to 2011 but it does make interesting reading and maybe provides some of the answers: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/06/the-shocking-truth-about-start-stop-systems/

Also have a look at this one: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/02/the-problem-with-start-stop-systems/
 
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#15 ·
Hello Bob, thank you for your bit of research, it was very interesting. I must agree that having to buy a specialist charger is a bit of a bummer but in does the job. Jaguar must be aware of the failings of these batteries as they offer the similar type charger at an inflated price with the Jaguar logo. The one I bought is a few steps better. Since I gave it the regeneration x2 the S/S system has functioned fully. Having said that we have also had a few long drives at steady speeds. ( my car is fitted with a speed limiter in the passenger seat :D :D ) I am sure that the whole of the car world that fits these batteries has similar problems. My friend who has an Audi A6 also has intermittant S/S working. From what I understand the battery needs a release of hydrogen gas from the mat in each cell to efficiently hold the charge.The regen phase does this on the C Tek charger. I would imagine with mostly town driving the charging is not up to the job and so the battery falls below par and shuts out the S/S.
 
#16 ·
Mine has been out of action for about a year...caught me out today at the traffic lights when she switched off again. I haven't changed anything or done any long trips recently.
 
#18 ·
My stop/start gradually failed from about 8 months old. It was quite random, as I could do long trips of 100+ miles without having any effect, then sometimes it would just work for a few days. My car does a 70 mile motoway round trip every week , so I mentioned it at the first service and the battery was replaced under warranty. It has worked properly ever since.
 
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#19 ·
lexie said:
My stop/start gradually failed from about 8 months old. It was quite random, as I could do long trips of 100+ miles without having any effect, then sometimes it would just work for a few days. My car does a 70 mile motoway round trip every week , so I mentioned it at the first service and the battery was replaced under warranty. It has worked properly ever since.
Possibly the original battery was in need of a regen charge not available from the car's system. The new battery will be in peak condition and will most likely stay that way with long drives. Mine has been fine since the two regens I did and the S/S works all the time now. I assume because my car probably stood for days (6 months) without much driving before I got it caused my S/S to gradually pack up initially. It has taken quite a while to fathom it out but I am sure that it will be fine now. I will regenerate it at least once a year or maybe every 6 months because of the driving I do.
 
#20 ·
Question if you don't mind, when you do a regen charge do you disconnect the battery from the car? Not sure how the Jag electronics take to having the battery removed...

I have a ctek that I've used to maintain my boat/sportscar batteries over winters over many years, but much simpler systems.

S.
 
#21 ·
Is the stop\start disabled in sport mode? Some cars I've driven with stop\start have it auto disabled when sport model is selected.

Seems to be random if it works or not reading this thread though.
 
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#22 ·
51mes said:
Question if you don't mind, when you do a regen charge do you disconnect the battery from the car? Not sure how the Jag electronics take to having the battery removed...

I have a ctek that I've used to maintain my boat/sportscar batteries over winters over many years, but much simpler systems.

S.
I watched the dealer just connect the very large chargers to several cars in the showroom and saw that they connect it mainly to the battery terminals. Only once did I see one chap connect the earth to the earth post in the engine compartment. So as the car is under warranty I did the same and have done several times since. The CTek charger has electronics in it to enable safe charging, without disconnecting. Mine came with 2 cables of which one set were croc clips style and the other for permanent fixture to be bolted on the terminals. I gave mine a regen charge some time back and then a couple of weeks later another regen charge. Since then I just give it a top up charge if I haven't driven it for 3 days or more. This usually takes around 3 hours. I suspect that this is unecessary and is just what I do. The S/S has functioned flawlessly ever since. I put mine on normal battery and AGM as the batteries are AGM type ( Absorbant Gas Mat). The AGM batteries need regeneration to release hydrogen around 2x per year. I have the CTek MXS5.0. The Jaguar branded item is a CTek charger of lesser spec and can be permanently fitted to the car.
 
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#23 ·
#24 ·
That is my understanding also. If using paddles and you want to use stop/ start ,say whilst having a long wait ,just hold up right paddle i.e. Back to drive and it will switch back on.
Robert :D
 
#25 ·
Vespa said:
Ian have a look at this for the better answer than I can give. It works in drive and sport but NOT paddle shift.
http://www.ownerinfo.jaguar.com/document/4N/2016/T23424/18377_en_GBR/proc/G1660254
Number 6 on the "why it won't work" list is interesting.
It mentions demand on the climate control system requires the engine to be running.

I remember a member posting on here about a chat with a techie who said that stop start won't work until the internal temp in the car has reached the temp set on the climate control system.
I would think that the car having to heat the car until it achieves the set temp is a demand and does need the engine to be running.
Might explain a few failures.........?
 
#26 ·
Yes, I think 8 reasons why it starts again automatically and 9 reasons why it won't work at all must cause a lot of mistaken cries of 'Fault'. It's very complicated and that's why they called it 'Intelligent'. To my mind complicated means more chance of going wrong.
 
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