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Disc and Pad Replacement

78K views 203 replies 39 participants last post by  Rsport180 
#1 ·
#152 ·
Responses from Jaguar York thus far...as noted, I have no idea if they are being perfectly reasonable...or if I am being over-charged?!:

jaguar York:

The fixed pricing for vehicles 3 years old and over is for the previous model/shape of XF which ceased production in 2015. It doesn't include the all new2016 model XF as the brakes are completely different and more expensive. Your XE is also a 2017 model year although registered in 2016 and does not classify for any fixed priced servicing/brakes.

The corrosion on the brake surfaces is not a warranty issue, the only way it can be presented as a warranty issue is if the disc material is actually comingaway from the surface of the discs and is falling apart, in which case yours was not. Your car was 3 years old having done 27,000 miles which is perfectly normal to have to replace brakes from wear and tear, I have had customer that have been in the same positionwith less miles.

The price has been taken off our own internal JLR Menu Pricing which to replace front and rear brake discs, pads and sensor wires comes to a total of £1182.77.I cannot comment on anything from a forum as we don't know if it was done at a main dealer of even if they used genuine parts at that price.

Myself:

I raised the issue with you in the first year, and was also told at that point it was 'wear and tear'.

From my understanding, the fact the discs were corroding within the first year...they should have been replaced at that point.

The corrosion on the discs has also expedited the wear of the pads themselves, as I cannot see how all 4 pads have worn down to between 80-90% in three years.

I definitely don't understand why all 4 brake discs are suffering from that level of corrosion as well...and would not have entertained the thought of purchasing what I believedwas a premium vehicle (with premium parts) if I was told it was normal for the brake discs to fail within 3 years due to corrosion (as clearly they can't be zinc coated, and I'd therefore assume the parts you have replaced will also not be zinc coated).

As the retailer that sold the vehicle, and also provided the service plan...I'd have hoped at the point which I raised concerns about rust/corrosion etc in the first year,the advice would have been to replace the discs at that stage (and would have been under warranty I'd assume).

To confirm...are you advising that the cost of replacing 4 pads and discs is more expensive than a 3 year old 5.0 F-type? Another customer on the official Jaguar forum hasadvised they received a cost from another Official Jaguar retailer as follows:

£528.27 for the fronts and £455.15 for the rears (£983.42 in total)...onto which an additional 10% discount was also being applied.

Total cost £885.07 - so why have I been charged over £300 more for exactly the same work?

After previously being charged for replacing parts due to corrosion by Inchcape...which was later refunded by Jaguar, as it should have been done under warranty...I'm extremelysceptical at the advice I'm being given here (for exactly the same type of issue - corrosion).

Finally, I don't believe it was noted that any sensor wires were replaced...as only the discs and pads were mentioned?

Jaguar York:

As said in my last email taken from Jaguar themselves. The only way we can replace brake discs and pads under warranty is if the disc material is fallingapart and deemed dangerous, please see attached picture. If the discs were in that state then we would have been able to replace them under warranty, anything else would have been rejected therefore we was not able to replace your discs and pads under warranty.

Discs are not zinc plated they are made of cast iron or steel. They are not coated with anything otherwise you wouldn't have the efficiency that any brakesshould have.

The fixed priced servicing/brakes is from Jaguar themselves, I cannot change what models are on there and also cannot change the prices.

We took our prices from our internal menu pricing which is a pricing guideline for any dealers to use which is what was done.

Replacing sensors is a standard procedure when replacing brake discs and pads as the old sensor wire was cut through due to the wear on the pads causingthe brake pad warning light on.
 
#153 ·
I would be a bit disappointed to have to replace brakes and pads after 27000 miles. Maybe Jag brakes have softer pads but I would expect the discs to last longer if that was the case. I do know that when my car was collected for a warranty repair, I mentioned to the guy that the brakes sometimes squealed in the morning, he replied that the pads were pretty "crap" on the cars! Bit surprising from a company guy.

You said that the discs were corroded, were they badly pitted with a very worn surface, or were they just heavily rusted?
 
#154 ·
Mikeyjd said:
I would be a bit disappointed to have to replace brakes and pads after 27000 miles. Maybe Jag brakes have softer pads but I would expect the discs to last longer if that was the case. I do know that when my car was collected for a warranty repair, I mentioned to the guy that the brakes sometimes squealed in the morning, he replied that the pads were pretty "crap" on the cars! Bit surprising from a company guy.

You said that the discs were corroded, were they badly pitted with a very worn surface, or were they just heavily rusted?
Here's a screen grab from the service video...bit out of focus, but you get the idea (all 4 disks are like this).

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Rim Alloy wheel


From researching this a bit today, it appears the F-Pace and F-Type forums also have this exact same issue...here are a few quotes from posters there (and on here) which may be relevant:


"That isn't normal at all.
Excessive corrosion probably due to the guide pins not being lubricated and the pads not engaging the disc properly"

"This is because the slide pins are seizing up and the pads are hitting the disc at an angle. The piston in the caliper is pushing the pad but with the slide pins seizing or seized the pad is only getting pushed in one place"

"A typical fault of non greased slide pin, and often missed in servicing and renewal of pads"

"This is most likely due to poor servicing and the slide pins seizing causing the caliper to malfunction."


As my discs clearly have a band which isn't corroded, with outer and inner bands of corrosion...I think this may be the issue (pads not aligned to the disks correctly, so due to a fault/poor servicing - particularly as I've regularly had my tyres changes from summer to winter by Jaguar York.

Although, as noted...I don't really know what I'm talking about here so it would be great if someone with experience advised if my line of thinking here is correct?
 

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#155 ·
100% slide pins seized. As already said the caliper piston will push the pad at an angle. I found out the hard way on a car after the brakes squealed a then grated as eventually the metal on the pad started rubbing against the disc. My fault as I didn't check them. That was a while back on another car and after that escapade I always checked and lubed the pins from then on. What happens is that muck and rust take their toll and over enthusistic cleaning with brake cleaner leaves the pind without any lube and rust sets in and causes them to seize. I understand from another post on this website that stainless steel slide pins are fitted to the XE and theoretically need no lube but I wonder if this is correct. Perhaps someone can confirm one way or the other?
 
#156 ·
I've now had a formal response from Jaguar customer service, who have replied as follows:

After reviewing the video, the technical decision is the brake condition is in line with the age/corrosion on the rest of the vehicle and probably due to the salt off the roads, therefore it is not deemed a manufacturing defect.

In addition, I checked and the costs to replace charged by Inchcape Jaguar York and can confirm that the amount is in-line with the Jaguar Pricing structure for these items.


Extremely disappointed...
 
#157 ·
I'm shortly going to replace all discs/pads on my Nov 17 registered car. I'll buy the parts myself and get a local garage to change them. I'm of the understanding that as long as the parts are OE quality and the garage is VAT registered, my warranty won't be affected.
 
#158 ·
https://skimmydiscs.co.uk/your-nearest-service-centre

This is one possible method round some of the cost. I've never done it, or had it done, so cannot actually recommend it. I have only heard 2nd hand about it. All I know is that there is a minimum allowable thickness for your discs, so if the rust is too deep (usually the outer edge) you may not be much better off. I assume that it is done with the brake calliper removed to access both sides.
 
#159 ·
Vespa said:
100% slide pins seized. As already said the caliper piston will push the pad at an angle. I found out the hard way on a car after the brakes squealed a then grated as eventually the metal on the pad started rubbing against the disc. My fault as I didn't check them. That was a while back on another car and after that escapade I always checked and lubed the pins from then on. What happens is that muck and rust take their toll and over enthusistic cleaning with brake cleaner leaves the pind without any lube and rust sets in and causes them to seize. I understand from another post on this website that stainless steel slide pins are fitted to the XE and theoretically need no lube but I wonder if this is correct. Perhaps someone can confirm one way or the other?
Not necessarily. Mine went like this after minimal use in the winter, all the sliders and pins were absolutely fine. The rot starts from the outer nd inner edges.

Mine has stainless pins and there's no lubrication on them.
 
#160 ·
Exactly as Vespa said, gummed up slide pins and/or brake pads binding on the calipers.
When I got my XE I asked my son to lube the pins on the rear brakes. When he removed them they appeared to be highly polished st/st and in fairness in reasonable shape but nonetheless he lubed them and my discs have taken on a much better polished look which they didn't have before. I too had obvious corrosion albeit I think because the car hadn't moved much for possibly 2 months or more..
As Mike said, you may well get away with those discs being skimmed. Not rocket science and in times past was a more common procedure than it is now. I'd also question how on gods earth Jaguar reckon the price you were quoted is the going rate. Personally I'd take the car to one of the would be "skimmydiscs" operations and hand the work over to them. Even if new discs are required I would be very surprised if an independent couldn't do the job for much, much less money. If I were to do this on my Z I reckon I could do the entire job at circa £150/£200 parts and 2 hours labour. Obviously Jag parts may be more expensive but I can tell you the brake pads are easily on a par with BMW.
 
#161 ·
Mike Rometer said:
https://skimmydiscs.co.uk/your-nearest-service-centre

This is one possible method round some of the cost. I've never done it, or had it done, so cannot actually recommend it. I have only heard 2nd hand about it. All I know is that there is a minimum allowable thickness for your discs, so if the rust is too deep (usually the outer edge) you may not be much better off. I assume that it is done with the brake calliper removed to access both sides.
I used to be on machine shop tools, and we used to do this all the time, normally skim on lathe, or grind for higher end cars.

Not sure about doing in situ on car, where is swarf going?
And does transmission take kindly to being spun at a high enough speed to do this properly.
 
#163 ·
Repairman said:
Mike Rometer said:
https://skimmydiscs.co.uk/your-nearest-service-centre

This is one possible method round some of the cost. I've never done it, or had it done, so cannot actually recommend it. I have only heard 2nd hand about it. All I know is that there is a minimum allowable thickness for your discs, so if the rust is too deep (usually the outer edge) you may not be much better off. I assume that it is done with the brake calliper removed to access both sides.
I used to be on machine shop tools, and we used to do this all the time, normally skim on lathe, or grind for higher end cars.

Not sure about doing in situ on car, where is swarf going?j
And does transmission take kindly to being spun at a high enough speed to do this properly.
Discs are usually cast iron, which as you know is often machined at low speed. They suggest only a few minutes a side which should not cause any problems in the transmission (rears only, unless AWD).

I think I'm warming to this after yesterday's ludicrous quote. It may (probably) mean changing the pads on mine but that is still not too onerous if I provide those myself. As it happens one of Skimmydiscs Premier depots is only about 10 miles away. Daft as it might sound I feel a little traitorous at, for once, not insisting on going with genuine Jaguar Service.
 
#165 ·
I've just had all 4 disks and pads replaced FOC after 5,000 miles. Yes only 5K total miles on the "Approved Used" year old car I bought in February. It would have been done earlier, but there is a sole Jaguar dealer on the Isle of Man. If you say a sole quickly you get a good idea of what the dealership is full of. Just like dealership in the UK where I got the car from.
 
#168 ·
Well a very varied set experiences. I'm clearly lucky as my discs and pads are original fit and I've just passed 45k miles!
That said I recently had a particularly spirited drive and have warped the front disks! So now I'm looking to replace/upgrade. I asked the dealer if they could fit 325mm discs and caliper assemblies, to which they replied NO! JLR will not allow dealers to modify from factory specs.
So now looking at EBC discs and Redstuff pads.
I have always used the brakes hard and that seems to have kept the dreaded corrosion at bay.
Rears still look ok with hardly any wear and pads with probably another 10k left in them. Fronts do get a hammering though, tight twisting roads with left foot braking has taken its toll.
 
#169 ·
Johnc said:
Well a very varied set experiences. I'm clearly lucky as my discs and pads are original fit and I've just passed 45k miles!
That said I recently had a particularly spirited drive and have warped the front disks! So now I'm looking to replace/upgrade. I asked the dealer if they could fit 325mm discs and caliper assemblies, to which they replied NO! JLR will not allow dealers to modify from factory specs.
So now looking at EBC discs and Redstuff pads.
I have always used the brakes hard and that seems to have kept the dreaded corrosion at bay.
Rears still look ok with hardly any wear and pads with probably another 10k left in them. Fronts do get a hammering though, tight twisting roads with left foot braking has taken its toll.
I'm glad I'm not coming the other way when you're on the road, sounds like an accident waiting to happen :eek: :eek:
 
#170 ·
147daytona said:
I'm glad I'm not coming the other way when you're on the road, sounds like an accident waiting to happen :eek: :eek:
I didn't think you could get a 180 smoker going fast enough to knacker the discs ?
:lol:
 
#171 ·
DTi tuning box & pedal box takes it to just under 240PS and just over 500Nm torque. Lovely torquey motor and the Pedal box has eliminated the launch hesitation. All insurance company informed and covered, surprisingly they knew all about it and regularly have DTi tuning box upgrade cover requests.
Spirited driving does not mean "nutter"! I never speed through built ups and never cross the centre white line, so coming the other way is never a problem. Respectful to others and very risk aware. I was brought up competition rallying in the Welsh valleys, then subsequently comprehensive skid pan training and defensive driving.
 
#172 ·
Johnc said:
DTi tuning box & pedal box takes it to just under 240PS and just over 500Nm torque. Lovely torquey motor and the Pedal box has eliminated the launch hesitation. All insurance company informed and covered, surprisingly they knew all about it and regularly have DTi tuning box upgrade cover requests.
Spirited driving does not mean "nutter"! I never speed through built ups and never cross the centre white line, so coming the other way is never a problem. Respectful to others and very risk aware. I was brought up competition rallying in the Welsh valleys, then subsequently comprehensive skid pan training and defensive driving.
Which insurance company are you with as I may go the same route of box/pedal. Was the extra premium reasonable? I hope you don't mind me asking?

Mark
 
#173 ·
Fordie said:
Buy better quality discs and pads on line then either fit them yourself or get a local garage to fit them. It's an easy job. Save yourself ££££ and get discs that are zinc coated to prevent future rusting.
Think it cost me about £360 total for discs front and back with ebc red pads.
Jaguar wanted over £900
Hi Fordie, did you get them fitted somewhere or DIY? I'm tempted to have someone look at my brakes as they're rather poor compared to the wife's Mazda 3 (the 3 would come to a halt if you'd so much as breathe on the pedal...). Am tempted to have a chat with Prestige Jag in Paisley, they come highly recommended and would like to try them out prior to my next service...
 
#174 ·
[/quote]

Which insurance company are you with as I may go the same route of box/pedal. Was the extra premium reasonable? I hope you don't mind me asking?

Mark
[/quote]

Insurance is with Aviva through A-plan local brokers. It was an additional £112 for the year.
Effectively the DTi tuning box has almost replicated the previous JLR "240" re-mapping of this engine. The torque increase is really noticeable.
The front discs appear to be below the minimum thickness, which is why they've warped. I'll mic' them up properly when I replace them.
 
#175 ·
ms1012 said:
Fordie said:
Buy better quality discs and pads on line then either fit them yourself or get a local garage to fit them. It's an easy job. Save yourself ££££ and get discs that are zinc coated to prevent future rusting.
Think it cost me about £360 total for discs front and back with ebc red pads.
Jaguar wanted over £900
Hi Fordie, did you get them fitted somewhere or DIY? I'm tempted to have someone look at my brakes as they're rather poor compared to the wife's Mazda 3 (the 3 would come to a halt if you'd so much as breathe on the pedal...). Am tempted to have a chat with Prestige Jag in Paisley, they come highly recommended and would like to try them out prior to my next service...
Quick update - car passed MOT today with flying colours. The technician did comment that the discs were lightly pitted front & back, but "nothing to be concerned about" and pads were looking good. When the car was returned to me, it was observed that my start / stop wasn't working and that I should get that looked into :roll:
 
#176 ·
Johnc said:
Well a very varied set experiences. I'm clearly lucky as my discs and pads are original fit and I've just passed 45k miles!
That said I recently had a particularly spirited drive and have warped the front disks! So now I'm looking to replace/upgrade. I asked the dealer if they could fit 325mm discs and caliper assemblies, to which they replied NO! JLR will not allow dealers to modify from factory specs.
So now looking at EBC discs and Redstuff pads.
I have always used the brakes hard and that seems to have kept the dreaded corrosion at bay.
Rears still look ok with hardly any wear and pads with probably another 10k left in them. Fronts do get a hammering though, tight twisting roads with left foot braking has taken its toll.
Oooh, does breaking hard in some way lessen the corrosive effect on the breaks?
I was not aware of this.
I'm the opposite
I'm very tentative with mine.
Often (almost every time I have a passenger) I'm teased for driving like a 50 year old man (I mean no offence to anyone on here of that age or over, its just a false stereotype my friends and partner seem to have acquired)

I'm to delicate with it in every way.
I slow down to go over bumps less than 5mph
If I notice pot holes, I do the same
Corners no more than 10mph (in towns)
Scared to damage the suspension haha.
 
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