New 2016 XE S owner - but I need your help

All Jaguar XE related discussions
Indianajons
Posts: 891
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:28 pm
Location: Peak District, UK

Re: New 2016 XE S owner - but I need your help

Post by Indianajons » Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:48 pm

I agree to disagree.... all I can say is that ever since fully synthetic oils were introduced, I’ve kept my cars for five years or more with the recommended oil change intervals (mileage or time) and never had a problem. Semi-synthetics and mineral oils yes, I agree, no more than 10000 or 5000 miles respectively or one year max.
2017 MY tempest grey Portfolio 180D, folding mirrors, 14 way seats, memory pack, cold weather pack, 360 parking, wi-fi hotspot

BOBCDP
Posts: 868
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:51 pm
Location: Vale of Glamorgan

Re: New 2016 XE S owner - but I need your help

Post by BOBCDP » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:42 am

I think it's all down to what's stamped in your brain. If you were brought up with older oils, and of course you have any interest in how the oily bit go round, then whatever the book says or the oil companies will have you believe. you will probably ignore it and change more frequently.
2020 - MY19 2018 R-Sport 30T AWD, Firenza, Adaptive Dynamics, Pano Roof, Touch Pro Dual, 40/20/40 Folding Seats. Heated s/wheel

2016- 2020 MY16 2015 R-Sport 180d, Auto, Yulong White,

chrisjp
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:11 pm
Location: Seascale, Cumbria

Re: New 2016 XE S owner - but I need your help

Post by chrisjp » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:04 pm

I guess you're right. I've been changing oils and filters on my numerous cars for over 50 years.
Back then Duckhams 20W-50 oil was a big advance over single grade oils that needed to be changed with the seasons, and 3000 mile oil changes were the normal practice (along with greasing all grease nipples on the suspension and prop shaft every 1000 miles!)
Chris Phillips. Jaguar XE HSE 250PS Petrol MY20. Portofino Blue, Light Oyster, privacy glass, heated steering wheel, Meridian 825w, space saver spare wheel, folding rear seat, black pack, 16-way driver seat

ChrisGB
Posts: 376
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:04 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: New 2016 XE S owner - but I need your help

Post by ChrisGB » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:06 pm

Something to bear in mind; an oil filter doesn't reach it's maximum filtering capability until it is partially dirty. Changing it too frequently could cause premature engine wear.
S 380, ICT Pro, resale grey. Fun and comfy!

Indianajons
Posts: 891
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:28 pm
Location: Peak District, UK

Re: New 2016 XE S owner - but I need your help

Post by Indianajons » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:39 pm

BOBCDP wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:42 am
I think it's all down to what's stamped in your brain. If you were brought up with older oils, and of course you have any interest in how the oily bit go round, then whatever the book says or the oil companies will have you believe. you will probably ignore it and change more frequently.
57 years of motorised conveyance, stripping and rebuilding engines and doing my own maintenance for the first 25 years of that time. So I remember full well oil changes every 3000 miles or six months, Castrol R and Duckhams etc but I also learned that synthetic oils are nothing like the mineral oils I was used to, being engineered (or more correctly composed and formulated) to contain molecules that retain their lubricity without breaking down over time. This, coupled with closer tolerance engine and fuel injection components, that don’t allow excess fuel to seep into the sump, is what allows service intervals to be extended.
2017 MY tempest grey Portfolio 180D, folding mirrors, 14 way seats, memory pack, cold weather pack, 360 parking, wi-fi hotspot

User avatar
Dynamic Dek
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:18 pm
Location: North Oxford

Re: New 2016 XE S owner - but I need your help

Post by Dynamic Dek » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:37 pm

ChrisGB wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:06 pm
Something to bear in mind; an oil filter doesn't reach it's maximum filtering capability until it is partially dirty. Changing it too frequently could cause premature engine wear.
I'd be interested in knowing the science behind that or is this an urban myth?
Having spent over 20 years in the lab and medical filter industry, working with many different types of filter technology, I can't remember seeing, hearing or working with a filter that improves its filtering with use. Maybe oil filters work on another principle?

DD
MY20 XE P250 S R Dynamic, Portofino Blue, Black pack, 19" 1050, Matrix Lights. Mem seats - Touch Pro Duo

ChrisGB
Posts: 376
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:04 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: New 2016 XE S owner - but I need your help

Post by ChrisGB » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:01 pm

Dynamic Dek wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:37 pm
ChrisGB wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:06 pm
Something to bear in mind; an oil filter doesn't reach it's maximum filtering capability until it is partially dirty. Changing it too frequently could cause premature engine wear.
I'd be interested in knowing the science behind that or is this an urban myth?
Having spent over 20 years in the lab and medical filter industry, working with many different types of filter technology, I can't remember seeing, hearing or working with a filter that improves its filtering with use. Maybe oil filters work on another principle?

DD
My lab experience shows the particulate size captured can go down as the filter medium begins to accumulate larger particles. When I designed a clean room environment (Anticon 1000) we specified filters that would capture down to a specific size and found through measurement that the filters would actually capture smaller particles towards the end of their service period. We took regular monitoring samples off the electrostatic secondary filters and were initially surprised to notice the trend. It makes sense intuitively, if you consider that as the filter medium becomes contaminated, the size of the apertures in it go down, the surface area at the micro scale goes up. Many years later, there was an article by someone on Youtube that had measured oil particulate contamination through new and used filters too, but I cannot find it on there today. His findings generally were that the filter got better until it increased bypass events. Obviously this won't apply to all filters in all situations.
S 380, ICT Pro, resale grey. Fun and comfy!

User avatar
Dynamic Dek
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:18 pm
Location: North Oxford

Re: New 2016 XE S owner - but I need your help

Post by Dynamic Dek » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:59 pm

Hi ChrisGB,

That is interesting, however, as the filter becomes more blocked and becomes more effective at capturing smaller particles, so the pressure drop across the filter increases.
The effect will be a lower pressure and reduced oil flow to the mechanical items with the engine relying on the lubrication.

My guess / gut feel is that a new filter and new oil will be supplying maximum flow of clean oil and hence pressure to the working surfaces which will more than offset the fact that the new filter passes larger particulates for a period of time. (quick google suggests an oil filter has an efficiency of very roughly 95% at 25 to 40 microns).

DD
MY20 XE P250 S R Dynamic, Portofino Blue, Black pack, 19" 1050, Matrix Lights. Mem seats - Touch Pro Duo

ChrisGB
Posts: 376
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:04 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: New 2016 XE S owner - but I need your help

Post by ChrisGB » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:58 pm

Dynamic Dek wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:59 pm
Hi ChrisGB,

That is interesting, however, as the filter becomes more blocked and becomes more effective at capturing smaller particles, so the pressure drop across the filter increases.
The effect will be a lower pressure and reduced oil flow to the mechanical items with the engine relying on the lubrication.

My guess / gut feel is that a new filter and new oil will be supplying maximum flow of clean oil and hence pressure to the working surfaces which will more than offset the fact that the new filter passes larger particulates for a period of time. (quick google suggests an oil filter has an efficiency of very roughly 95% at 25 to 40 microns).

DD
With apologies to the original poster for the subject creep!

The oil pressure is generally suitable for the job of lubricating the pump assisted bearings and there, the oil films are thick enough to allow 40 micron particles to be carried through the bearings without issue. Once the filter gets blocked, the bypass valve should operate before oil pressure drop / flow restriction causes a problem. Similar happens when flow is restricted by low oil temperatures.

However, there are other areas of the engine where the oil film can get much thinner. The worst case scenario is when the metals and oil are hot and the engine speed low. Low engine speed and high temperatures conspire to create shallow shear gradients and low hydrodynamic separations. Areas like piston rings and particularly cam followers could easily be seeing sub 5 micron oil films and here 25 micron particulates will push through a boundary film, even with the superb boundary film strength of the latest ester oils. In this way, it is possible that changing filters too often could cause accelerated wear. Not 100% sure, but it makes sense.

Personally, I've always gone with a safety first approach to oil changes. I'd rather get them in earlier than later. High quality modern oils are remarkable, but use case needs to be considered. A 2 year service interval may well be possible, especially if the sump is large, but intuitively, I'd want to change oil and filter yearly even if mileage is not huge. One of my other cars has 12,500 mile service intervals. The use case is generally a high mileage, high proportion of relatively low speed / traffic work and the oil consumption, even using the very best synthetics, accelerates noticeably from around 7000 miles, so it gets interim oil changes. Lots of short journeys where the oil seldom sees full temperature would see the highest oil change frequency from me, I think.
S 380, ICT Pro, resale grey. Fun and comfy!

User avatar
PhilB
Posts: 7212
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:57 pm
Location: South Buckinghamshire

Re: New 2016 XE S owner - but I need your help

Post by PhilB » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:40 am

ChrisGB wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:58 pm
With apologies to the original poster for the subject creep!
The OP hasn't been back since starting this topic about a week ago.
2019 Evoque P300 HSE MHEV, Carpathian Grey.
2017 XE S 380, Carpathian grey.
2015 XE S 340, British Racing Green.

Post Reply