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Autocar Review 2021 Model

6K views 25 replies 18 participants last post by  lexie 
#1 ·

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#3 ·
What I've always struggled to get my head around is...bearing in mind the "lightweight aluminium architecture", why are Jags significantly heavier than the competition? It harms the performance, economy and emissions.
 
#4 ·
The reviewer highlighted the most important changes are the infotainment system and the 5k reduction. I wonder if this is indicative that more exciting changes will be made in 2022 once the world has calmed down or are Jaguar going to run off already? Could be some high specced bargains in the next couple of years.
 
#5 ·
As I understand it, the XE is as heavy, or heavier than it's competition even though all but the boot lid and boot floor are made of aluminium. At least part of the reason is the very complex rear suspension which is better than the competition, but heavier. Another is that it's also beefed up (a JLR standard across all models) which allows it to tolerate bad kerbing (or large pot holes), without damaging the suspension (wheel excluded). This also adds weight. I went into a large pothole a year ago, large enough to rip the sidewall of my tyre (just as well I had a spare wheel). It was sufficiently bad that I feared there would be steering or suspension issues (having come from a BMW 4-series, then, I would have expected problems). Nothing, nada, no problems then or since.

You pays your money...
 
#6 ·
I thought the review was a little unfair. I believe its generally recognised that Jaguar engines take a few thousand miles before they deliver full performance. My last P250 certainly did. I suspect their car was low mileage. I test drove the BMW 3 series before deciding on a new XE and the Jags chassis was much more sophisticated. The double wishbone front suspension (as just fitted to the new Porsche 911 GT3) means the steering and front end grip is leagues ahead of the BMW and the sophistication of the standard damping delivers a more composed ride.

So for me it was a very easy choice. And the price cut was the cherry on the cake!
 
#7 ·
Alanqs said:
As I understand it, the XE is as heavy, or heavier than it's competition even though all but the boot lid and boot floor are made of aluminium. At least part of the reason is the very complex rear suspension which is better than the competition, but heavier. Another is that it's also beefed up (a JLR standard across all models) which allows it to tolerate bad kerbing (or large pot holes), without damaging the suspension (wheel excluded). This also adds weight. I went into a large pothole a year ago, large enough to rip the sidewall of my tyre (just as well I had a spare wheel). It was sufficiently bad that I feared there would be steering or suspension issues (having come from a BMW 4-series, then, I would have expected problems). Nothing, nada, no problems then or since.

You pays your money...
You're right with this. Jags have the same sign off process as LR so it will withstand a 45mph kerb strike. Also it has double wishbone suspension as standard compared to a McPherson strut like in the germans typically so its heavier for that.

I went to the F Type Fen End event and I asked the pro drivers there what they think about jags and the F Type in particular being quoted heavy in reviews and they said that JLR publish the EU weight (fluids plus 75kg driver) where as most others publish the kerb weight (-75kg driver) so really the difference isn't as great as you're being led to believe, other smaller things like a 5 litre supercharged V8 might play a part too!
 
#8 ·
I've gone to the latest info I can find for the Xe and a direct competitor and came up with a comparison chart.

Blue Rectangle Font Screenshot Parallel


Who knows, if JLR had managed to find a 100kg weight saving, the car might have sold more. We'll never know unfortunately.
 

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#10 ·
I'd suggest that the economy and emissions would have more impact on sales. Having said that, "Honest John Real mpg" gives both cars sitting around 36mpg. How would a German car do so well in the tests? :)
 
#11 ·
So both are 2l Petrol.

The 330i claims 43.5mpg according to whatcar website and gets real world rating of 36.6mpg on the Honest John website.
The P250 claims 35.5mpg according to whatcar website and gets real world rating of 36.2mpg on the Honest John website.

So basically, they appear to claim more, but achieve basically the same.
 
#13 ·
British cars will never sell well in Britain while the motoring press always slag them off, regardless of how good they really are, while at the same time always making out the German cars are somehow superior, even if they're obviously not.

I've owned 2 Audis, both of which were soulless to drive, and 1 BMW 330i straight 6 M-Sport, sounded good but felt heavy compared to the XE's. Also the interior of the beemer was bland and not greatly different to one my dad had 20 years previously, and yet the press always slag off the Jag interior for being dated!

The one area the Germans are better is in the quality of the aftersales service, but I would rather have a better car for 364 days of the year than 1 day a year of better service.
 
#14 ·
They praise German cars because they're heavily sponsored by the like of BMW and Volkswagen
 
#15 ·
I had 12 years of BMWs before getting the XE, first a 320D coupe, then a 430i Gran Coupe. I had multiple reasons for changing to the XE. The BMWs, especially the coupe which was on 19" rims had abominable ride, the 4 series was a lot better because I kept it on 18" rims and got the adaptive suspension but I still wanted an improvement. I went for cream/beige leather interior on both BMWs which frankly looked more up market and tasteful than the black Dakota leather but, although very very hard wearing, the dakota leather was a very poor quality and, close up, not great to look at or touch. I wanted that fixed.
The dash top plastic and door tops etc. were not great. Any time I looked at it in either car, I just turned my eyes away, it was so dull and cheap looking. I wanted that fixed. Composure, steering feel, handling, the overall performance of the BMWs was not particularly what I wanted. To be fixed.
BMW penny pinching: the first one had sun visors which were covered in the same material as the headlining, the 2nd one, like every other BMW had plastic covering matching the colour only of the headlining and not remotely the same material. The first one had grab handles for the front seats only, the 2nd one had no grab handles anywhere in the car. And has been said above, the interiors were not that interesting.
To fix things like that and still stay in a BMW would have cost me thousands more on a car whose price was already dearer than the XE which answered all these problems.
Drawbacks: the boot is bigger than the XE's but I will only notice it the day I have to shove large suitcases into it. The 4 series Gran Coupe had the same boot size as the 3 series coupe but the hatch made a huge difference. There was more back room space in both BMWs but I rarely carry back seat passengers and I won't be sitting there anyway. Big deal. Comparing the 430i with the XE particularly, the 430i is faster accelerating and has much better fuel consumption but with the amount of driving nowadays, who will notice. (On the same commute over many months, the 430i returned 38mpg and the XE, barely 30) but with the short journeys I do now, both cars would return mid twenties at best.
I genuinely do not understand the people who say that the BMW interior is of higher quality and praise the fit and finish and tightness of the interior (see all my comments above). I have no complaints about fit and finish in the XE and, after 19 months, like the BMWs, I have no rattles. Just about everyone on the BMW forums considers the Dakota leather to be "cheap" and although some of the new ones use Vernasca (I think) leather instead of Dakota, it's still not as good as the mid-range and best leather offered by Jaguar. ("Merino individual leather, another £3,500 thank you very much Sir")
I still do like the 4 series Gran Coupe but in comparison with the 3 series, the XE is still a better looking car, it's more refined, more tastefully finished, sweeter to drive, isn't as common as muck, and doesn't cost thousands and thousands more. (Mind you, I wish I had a BMW's servicing costs; way less than Jaguar).:)
Rant over.
 
#16 ·
Just to be clear...I have absolutely no complaints about my Xe. It is a fantastic tool to drive in whichever manner I see fit, and the interior is more than good enough. There are enough toys inside to keep me amused and even more outside to keep me safe. My main point was that it suffers (on paper) against the competition and that could be a reason for its lack of popularity.
 
#17 ·
Having seen the front end treatment on the new 4-series and apparently coming to the 3 series, I think the XE has taken several steps up in the looks department.
Comparing the two.
I just wonder who it was who signed this monstrosity off??
:shock:

https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/all-models/4-series.html
 
#20 ·
Indianajons said:
They praise German cars because they're heavily sponsored by the like of BMW and Volkswagen
I agree with this statement. :roll: I've owned a few BMW's over the years and the XE is a better car imho. I think Jaguar are being a bit short-sighted if they drop the XE as it goes up against, and compares very well to others in a popular sector, and now I hear that there is a campaign against SUV's, particularly in the cities. That could be the start of a trend back to saloon cars, and I don't see BMW or Audi dropping the 3 Series or the A4 anytime soon.
 
#21 ·
I think the relative popularity is down to the Rolex factor. Here is a brand which makes excellent quality watches, originally as "tool" or professional watches. With years of great marketing it has become the standard - "that's what everyone wears". There are a heck of a lot of people out there who know Rolex is a top brand but don't know that in the mechanical watch world, Rolex are simply a mid level brand in terms of skill, aesthetics, quality, and there are dozens of brands which exceed their quality and ability but they don't spend £100 million a year on marketing, e.g. any sports which are even vaguely middle class will have some sort of Rolex sponsorship or branding .

BMW have been telling us, since at least 1965, they are the ultimate driving machine. Like Rolex, they make a damn good product and you know and I know that at least half the BMWs purchased are bought on the basis of the badge on the bonnet and nothing else. "That's what everyone buys"

To go back to watches, Omega comparing model for model with Rolex make better watches which are also cheaper and whilst I accept the analogy isn't perfect the differences in the car brands are more perception and hype than anything else... and hype won.
 
#22 ·
Yes, you are quite right. Some buy a brand for status value. Jaguar make cars and now those horrible SUV things, only suitable for the USA roads. BMW make some very ugly cars and those bully boy tank size SUVs. Mercedes, another staus brand are now more common than Vauxhall. They also make lorries, vans, krankenwagens and another bunch of mainly ugly cars. I had a 500c sometime back in the mid 80's. On a first drive I nearly tipped it on it's side as it was an unstable beast. Powerful, yes, but not a good car. The electric seats got stuck at max backwards position and it developed oil leaks. Overall a nice car but with several faults that the AMG section sorted to some way to correct it in their sporty version. Never liked the car. It was one I was glad to see the back of. No, I like the XE and it seems as good as many others, if not better that I have owned or driven. I love a nice watch and you can get some vrakers for about £100 and there is no need to spend £Ks on a watch, other than for status reasons.
 
#23 ·
I've been following this thread and find the comparison of imported German vehicles versus domestic Jaguars from a UK perspective interesting. Many US high-end buyers feel the same way about their "domestic" GM, Chrysler, and Ford products which most generally consider garbage relative to their UK/European counterparts. With that said, here in the US (especially in the affluent areas) BMWs, Mercedes, and Audis are common as dirt while Jaguars are far and few between. Of course, performance, features, quality, and reliability are must-haves but, independent of one's personal preference on a model versus model basis, I personally like the stand-out factor of driving something different. As a former long-time Saab guy (which also was very uncommon here in the US) before GM drove them out of business, this is a personal stand-out trait that has carried over into my new converted-for-life now favorite car brand :) I still love my First Jag-g-g!

BTW - I agree with your statement on Omega (Tudor falls in that category too). If you're really looking for a true high-end watch, I'd go with A. Lange & Sohne (sorry, it's German, ha!) or Vacheron Constantin.
 
#24 ·
Ah but, and just to change the topic to watches, A Lange & Sohne don't make very many watches per year. They can't if they are going to maintain the quality level. However, Jaeger LeCoultre, with a history of making some of the finest pieces this world has seen, occupy the middle ground and some describe them as being Patek Philippe quality for Rolex prices (at least in their lower end watches as some of their dearest watches cost nearly £1 million)

For quite a few years after they came out, the Royal Oak, the Nautilus and the Vacheron 222 (later called the Overseas) all had the same Jaeger LeCoultre movement in them and they supplied movements to the likes of Cartier and IWC as well.

And yes, I am a Jaeger LeCoultre fan. It reminds me of Jaguar. They don't have the number of sales and the marketing spend of some of the others but certain aspects of the cars are definitely better than the others. And as someone said, if you want luxury, you buy British, performance, buy German, and excitement, buy Italian. British cars certainly do luxury better than the others.
 
#25 ·
As someone who was originally put off the XE by the 'poor interior compared to the Germans' in endless reviews, I came across an early very well specced Portfolio at a local dealer 18 months ago and went to have a look. Siting in the car in the flesh, I couldn't see why the reviews had been so negative, so I went ahead and bought it. Maybe it's the Portfolio spec, but this almost six year old has zero rattles and squeaks and feels premium, apart from a couple of minor and inconsequential areas. I really don't get the Audi and BMW interior quality thing at all. I have always found their interiors to be unimaginative, boring really, and while quality is good, it's well overrated as far as I can see. Some motoring journalists seem Pavlovian in their responses. What Car seems the worst. Their review of the new F Pace still has an overall three star rating, despite every other review from the UK and beyond rating the interior very highly indeed. Returning to the Autocar review, I really don't think the XE steering and handling gives anything at all away to BMW. There seems to be a generation of motoring journalists who were teenagers when BMW was some way ahead of the competition. That is no longer the case, but the journalists just can't get their heads away from this mindset.
 
#26 ·
When I get in my friends Mercedes C Class and Audi A5, I don't see the difference in quality that these reviewers harp on about. It all appears very similar to me. I reckon they spend so much of their time in German cars that they become familiar, like a brand/style of shoes they are used to wearing. The ipad screen stuck on the dash in the C class is quality? Pah!. The mouse navigation in the Audi doesn't wow me like they say, perhaps they are all left handed or something.

I can remember when the F10 (2011) BMW 5 series came out. The reviewers raved about this 5* car, but said the variable steering was vague and awkward and the he adaptive suspension (£3000) was essential else it handled poorly and was uncomfortable. Uh! Really!

To put these professional reviewers opinions into perspective. We had a Fiat 500 1.2 for 10 years and 118,000 miles. In that time it only needed a new radiator and a door handle hinge. Yes, it was tinny, had an interior made from egg boxes, with no sound proofing etc. Most reviewers slated the 500 every time, saying the VW Up was the better car to buy. But somehow the little Fiat remained the best selling small car for more than 11 years by a long way and it saved the company. Why? Because it had soul, style, character and fun in spades and the buyers knew what the wanted (i.e. a jacket might not be as practical as an anorak, but you know which one you want, rather than which one you should have).
 
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