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Stop/Start again a few thoughts

253K views 898 replies 111 participants last post by  PhilB 
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#1 ·
I made an observation over the past 24 hours. Yesterday we had a run out of 125 miles along fast A roads and motorways along with a few slower A roads due to speed restrictions. The stop/start more or less packed up about 4 weeks ago, which I put down to short journeys and the DPF filter not having chance to regenerate properly. So after the run I expected the S/S to function correctly. No, it didn't. Today I got back in the car and for once did not connect the phone to the USB. The first journey there was no S/S working but coming back home it functioned every time. As I was near the dealer I was going to get it in to have it looked at. When it started working again I decided not to book it in. The question here is because I was so near the dealer and the car was parked within a few hundred yards from the dealer for around 40 minutes. Now can the car electronically link to JLR near a dealer and be checked over?? I don't know. Can the phone actually be blocking any updating if the acceptance of connection to JLR is not granted? Really strange situation that the S/S works faultlessly for weeks on end then just packs up. I have kept the battery topped up fully with a CTEK charger, so it is not battery related. The car should have cleaned the DPF on the first part of the larger journey at 63 miles. The only other thing I can think of was that I had the aircon on all the time but switched it out this morning. In the past the aircon made no difference whatsoever as long as the battery and DPF were 100%. Any thoughts again on the subject??
 
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#528 ·
Here are my thoughts for what they are worth.

Why did JLR fit s/s technology to their cars? Because they like all the other manufacturers were forced into it and we all know they are like lemmings. One does it... they all do it. Is it fit for purpose? Hell no!!

In the ideal world (lab test conditions) it can obviously be shown to save fuel, but even then how much fuel is saved? Estimates appear to show it may be around 5%. So on a tank of fuel of 60 litres with diesel at say £1.35/l the saving would be about £4.00 or about the cost of a pint of beer (where I live anyway). As we all know, the UK has one of the worst road congestion problems in Europe, but when it comes to s/s technology helping you save fuel in typical stop/go traffic queues, forget it, it just doesn't. It only starts to save fuel when the stop periods are of a reasonable length and in most cases in stop/go traffic it is more likely to be only a few seconds. A few times doing that and the s/s system says "Whoaaa!!, restarting this high compression engine is bloody hard work for my battery, I've had enough of this, I'm switching off". Driver reaction is "It's faulty, it's not working, it's under warranty, I am taking it back to the dealer". They of course are fully aware that the system is not fit for purpose and will never continue to work every time over a long period. Why should they worry? The problem is really good for business and JLR have to bear the cost anyway. They will apply all the usual tests to your battery, which you may have already nackered anyway if you use s/s regularly. If it doesn't meet certain criteria, they will replace it and off you go, happy that it works and of course it will for a while until you nacker the new one which will probably be after your 3 year warranty runs out.

I'm pleased to say my supposed underpowered 80Ah jobbie despite having never been near a Ctek or any other external charger, still works exactly as it should after 3 years use and on the odd occasion when I forget to turn s/s off, it works every single time. In my mind that alone is proof that over a period, continued use of s/s will reduce the efficiency of a battery much faster than one that is not being stressed by the constant high load current drain of starting, then followed by the charging system attempting to replace that loss of capacity.

I'm sure all the manufacturers are working on new and better solutions to the problem of fuel saving but the fact is s/s in it's present form never has and never will work satisfactorily. I think 53 pages of posts on here about sums it up. Best solution and to cut down on frustration, just hit the off switch when you start up. :D :D
 
#531 ·
The start stop in my XE has worked every time for the last 3 years. No issues whatsoever.

People are reporting faults which aren't faults.

1. If you do a lot of short journeys then don't expect it to work all the time. The battery will take enough abuse as is, there's nothing wrong with the capacity of it or the suitability of the charging system.
2. If you set the climate control on to a very low temperature and have a slow fan speed then it will never kick in as the climate control will send out an inhibit.
3. Same as above but in winter selecting a very high temperature.
4. Using heated seats and rear screen.
5. If you do short journeys and the car is struggling to regenerate the DPF for the diesels, the system will inhibit start stop.

All of the loan cars I've had, believe me I've had at least a dozen have never had issues with start stop. The MY18 XF I have at the moment has a handy symbol to show when start stop is automatically inhibited. I normally see this when the car is trying to warm up the interior in the first 5 minutes of the journey.

Bear in mind only a handful of 'Fiesta's' or the like are diesel and have climate control so the chances of start stop working are statistically much much higher.
 
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#532 ·
Wastegate84 said:
The start stop in my XE has worked every time for the last 3 years. No issues whatsoever.

People are reporting faults which aren't faults.

1. If you do a lot of short journeys then don't expect it to work all the time. The battery will take enough abuse as is, there's nothing wrong with the capacity of it or the suitability of the charging system.
2. If you set the climate control on to a very low temperature and have a slow fan speed then it will never kick in as the climate control will send out an inhibit.
3. Same as above but in winter selecting a very high temperature.
4. Using heated seats and rear screen.
5. If you do short journeys and the car is struggling to regenerate the DPF for the diesels, the system will inhibit start stop.

All of the loan cars I've had, believe me I've had at least a dozen have never had issues with start stop. The MY18 XF I have at the moment has a handy symbol to show when start stop is automatically inhibited. I normally see this when the car is trying to warm up the interior in the first 5 minutes of the journey.

Bear in mind only a handful of 'Fiesta's' or the like are diesel and have climate control so the chances of start stop working are statistically much much higher.
Points taken and mentioned many times by many people. My car when working will work in most conditions once the engine reaches a set temp and that is not the full temp with climate control on. It has become vastly more reliable since a double recon in the early summer. Tomaorrow it will ahve sat 4 days without moving from the driveway so I will see if it works OK again.
 
#533 ·
Wastegate84 said:
The start stop in my XE has worked every time for the last 3 years. No issues whatsoever.

People are reporting faults which aren't faults.

1. If you do a lot of short journeys then don't expect it to work all the time. The battery will take enough abuse as is, there's nothing wrong with the capacity of it or the suitability of the charging system.
2. If you set the climate control on to a very low temperature and have a slow fan speed then it will never kick in as the climate control will send out an inhibit.
3. Same as above but in winter selecting a very high temperature.
4. Using heated seats and rear screen.
5. If you do short journeys and the car is struggling to regenerate the DPF for the diesels, the system will inhibit start stop.

All of the loan cars I've had, believe me I've had at least a dozen have never had issues with start stop. The MY18 XF I have at the moment has a handy symbol to show when start stop is automatically inhibited. I normally see this when the car is trying to warm up the interior in the first 5 minutes of the journey.

Bear in mind only a handful of 'Fiesta's' or the like are diesel and have climate control so the chances of start stop working are statistically much much higher.
I would agree that there should be certain times when it won't work, doesn't explain why recently, with all heated screens, Heating, and heated seats it worked for that journey, and not at all other times, when nothing was turned on, not even radio/satnav, I tried turning screen off as well, strange.

My friend has a 2.0D Skoda Octavia, and S/S works all the time, even when all functions like heating/air con, heated seats etc is turned on
 
#534 ·
If it doesn't have digital climate control then it might well do. Personally I'm happy that if the car is trying to heat or cool the interior I'd rather have the engine running. Luckily I'm also in a manual so I can control when I actually want it to stop, only at long red lights for example. The auto drives me nuts switching off at every junction - first thing I do is switch it off for obvious reasons!
 
#535 ·
This is the second jag i've had where it works fine for 4 or 5 months and then never again. I understand short journeys will inhibit it but I have recently had a holiday involving driving from london to wales and back together with one hour journeys whilst there, london to bournemouth and back and various other medium journeys. I think the hot weather causing the air con to be running all the time (not at an excessively cold temperature of 21.5C) is too much for the battery ever to recover enough without being re-charged. The battery is just not big enough compared to others cars whose owners say they never have a problem despite whatever is running and how short the journeys. Jaguar really should have sorted this out has been a problem for a long time. I think it is a pain in the arse so doesn't bother me not working but just an example of Jaguar just not quite making the grade
 
#537 ·
Wastegate84 said:
The start stop in my XE has worked every time for the last 3 years. No issues whatsoever.

People are reporting faults which aren't faults.

1. If you do a lot of short journeys then don't expect it to work all the time. The battery will take enough abuse as is, there's nothing wrong with the capacity of it or the suitability of the charging system.
2. If you set the climate control on to a very low temperature and have a slow fan speed then it will never kick in as the climate control will send out an inhibit.
3. Same as above but in winter selecting a very high temperature.
4. Using heated seats and rear screen.
5. If you do short journeys and the car is struggling to regenerate the DPF for the diesels, the system will inhibit start stop.

All of the loan cars I've had, believe me I've had at least a dozen have never had issues with start stop. The MY18 XF I have at the moment has a handy symbol to show when start stop is automatically inhibited. I normally see this when the car is trying to warm up the interior in the first 5 minutes of the journey.

Bear in mind only a handful of 'Fiesta's' or the like are diesel and have climate control so the chances of start stop working are statistically much much higher.
Although I agree with the reasons you mention for S/S not kicking in, my experience says that battery plays an important role.
S/S irregularities / absence started 1 month after I got the (new) car and continued for 2 years. They changed the battery in May and since then S/S works as a Swiss clock. I didn't change my routine of short trips or my way of driving. The new battery was 85Ah, no need for a bigger one.
The explanation I got from JLR is that alternator charges as less as possible for "polar bear" reasons and there are batteries more adapted for that.
 
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#538 ·
Firstly from my reply yesterday. The S/S worked perfectly today after the car was not driven for 4 days. The remote engine start had been inhibited as the car was in sleep mode so at least I know that the car is operating correctly to preserve battery charge. Also the standard battery is 80 Ah not 85Ah, so if an 85Ah battery has been fitted to your car Julian, and all is well that extra bit of capacity may just be what is needed. This is a mystery that I am sure will carry on and all the input so far is very useful. Perhaps JLR should look at it all and then come up with a solution. There is enough evidence to show that there is a problem with many XE's.
 
#539 ·
Vespa said:
Firstly from my reply yesterday. The S/S worked perfectly today after the car was not driven for 4 days. The remote engine start had been inhibited as the car was in sleep mode so at least I know that the car is operating correctly to preserve battery charge. Also the standard battery is 80 Ah not 85Ah, so if an 85Ah battery has been fitted to your car Julian, and all is well that extra bit of capacity may just be what is needed. This is a mystery that I am sure will carry on and all the input so far is very useful. Perhaps JLR should look at it all and then come up with a solution. There is enough evidence to show that there is a problem with many XE's.
My mistake, 80Ah, not 85Ah. Same as original
 
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#540 ·
OK no problems and I am pleased that you have a fully functional S/S system. I think mine is not too far off being OK now after that double recondition earlier in the year as today would have been the tell tale sign if it hadn't worked after the 4 days of non use. I am just pernickity regarding things that should work if fitted. I remember spending around 10 hours trying to get my racing bike wheels 100% true and eventually found out that the original wheel builder had fitted several wrong size spokes which stopped the perfect truing of the rear wheel.
 
#541 ·
Hi I am sorry to say one who likes the stop/start feature. Yes it does have a mind of its own but i like to save fuel if stopped for more than a minute and it saves the environment at the same time. I have paid good English money for my Cat and would like it to work as sold and not to be told that the battery needs to be trickle charged literally weekly to maximise the charge on a 3 year old battery. To me it has lost its holding charge capability. Most lead acid batteries give good service for about 6-7 years then fade a bit. I fitted quire a few in my time.
I do a 60 mile trip monthly and every 3 months a 340 mile trip and yep it works for a week or two then stops again. I am not keen on buying a new battery to have it working. I gather Jaguar replaced batteries under warranty but mine is now 3 years and 3 weeks old, so no warranty. I will look at extended warranty anyway. I did not buy a Cat to have it on charge ..its the job of the alternator and battery. The Battery to hold the charge for starting in the first place and the alternator to run the electrics when the engine is running. I remember starting cars with dynamos and disconnecting the battery and with slightly raised revs the engine kept running..
 
#542 ·
There is no issue with the battery capacity and no solution is required as the system works as expected.

The dealer's comment about the charging system is inaccurate and comes from someone who clearly has little knowledge of how the system actually functions.
 
#543 ·
I have just done yet another recon and charge on my battery and no sign of the s/s working. I've had the car for nearly 7 months and in all that time it has worked for just three weeks and that's only after being in the dealership on two occasions. It worked for two weeks after the first visit and one week after the second visit. Even 100 mile trips make no difference.
 
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#544 ·
I am giving up on this now as it appears that 98% have problems and they apparently are designed to be there as per the instructions in the manual. Basically it will not work as expected because of several built in safeguards that will kick in to stop it working on nearly all cars but for the lucky few.

PhilB can you close this thread now and lock it as spending 3 years putting ideas forward from observations and getting some results on my car it appears the thread has got too involved with too many factors. I see some have no problems and others do. That's the way it works.
 
#545 ·
I think for the majority it works fine. If you do short journeys then what can you expect.

There may be a few people who have had strange scenarios, maybe the car sat idle for a while or apparently there were a few 'suspect' batteries but on the whole it looks ok.

Like I said I've had at least 15 different loan cars and it always worked fine. That is more than just luck.
 
#546 ·
Vespa said:
PhilB can you close this thread now and lock it as spending 3 years putting ideas forward from observations and getting some results on my car it appears the thread has got too involved with too many factors. I see some have no problems and others do. That's the way it works.
Of course.
I think we are still going round in circles and there's enough info on here for people to try fixes etc.
Thread closed.
 
#548 ·
Realising that trying to keep stop start from perpetually appearing on new topics is a bit like herding cats, I have unlocked this one.
Please only add NEW information that hasn't already been posted.
:D
 
#550 ·
Disaster!
For the first time in 20 months of ownership my stop start has started working.
Every bloody time!
Even when the engine is cold.
I should have smelt a rat as when I drove away from the dealer last week after having an O2 sensor replaced the digi dash was on another theme and the tyre pressures were now in Bar instead of PSI.
So I think those scallywags did some tinkering with the software on the dash (it was due one according to topix for the dash going blank (never has)) and maybe some kind of S/S update too ?
Should have noticed as on start up now I get a green "A" in a circle on the left side of the dash showing the feckin thing is working.
Going back in on Monday for another headlamp washer unit so I'll do some "interrogation" and try and find out about what they did to the S/S.
 
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