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ECU remapping

23K views 29 replies 15 participants last post by  Jeff123 
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#1 ·
Someone on here recommended a tuning specialist a few weeks back and I have had a quote for £199 to increase the Bhp and torque by 30 bhp and 60 Nm torque with imrovements in fuelling by 7-10% It seems reasonable but I am in two minds whether to have it done. Has anyone any sensible comments as to the value of having this done? (emphasis on sensible)
 
#2 ·
As any engineer will tell you, there's a sort of "unholy trinity" .
Power, economy, emissions.
You can improve any one (or two) at the expense of the one or two remaining.
Jaguar, with all their resources, aimed at the optimum balance between these three.
And I'd stick with it.
Yes, you can probably get more torque / power - but the others (economy, emissions, engine life) are likely to suffer.
PLUS - any change from manufacturer's spec. will probably affect your insurance, or if you don't tell the insurer, could render you uninsured.
Not likely in a roadside check, but if you need the insurer to pay out.
 
#4 ·
Hi, I'm not arguing, I can only speak from my own experience and I have to admit that I havent racked up a lot of miles on my tuned cars. That said, others on the F Type forum (US F type that is) have had their cars tuned for over 3 years and done tens of thousands of miles (I think in km but most of these are US members so I'll concede miles) and back in my XF days a number of English owners tuned their diesel XFs.

I actually cant recall seeing anyone speak of engine failure or problems resulting from an engine tune in a Jag. Actually I should correct that, someone on the F Type forum did heaps of things to his car in search of massive HP gains including tune and it ended up shitting itself from memory. But those of us who have kept to modest gains (340 or 380 HP to 450HP including bigger pulley) have had no issues at all.

Mine was tuned about 6 months ago, no dramas and it is wickedly quick. The delivery is more linear than stock. I think my fuel economy has improved. That said, I wouldnt race the car on the track because the tuned cars can run hotter is pressed hard for a period of time.

I also tuned my volvo s60R back in about 2004. That tune made it go a lot faster but the power delivery wasnt as linear and it felt a bit lumpy. That said, no mechanical issues, it was tuned for maybe 2 years before I sold it.

I suppose that if I bought a car that I was going to keep forever and run up 20,000 miles a year in, I'd be leery of tuning it. But if I was doing 10,000 miles a year normal use with a bit of fun here and there, I wouldnt bat an eyelid but I would spend more for a reputable product.
 
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#5 ·
Thank you BruceTQ. I just wondered whether 30 Bhp is going to be noticable and whether the engine will suffer. I tuned cars many years back changing jets, carbs, air filters, plugs, suspension and brakes etc but nothing with electronic tuning. I wouldn't know where to start or have the kit, so would have to rely on someone to do it and trust them.
 
#7 ·
Hi Vespa,
I had the 180 XE previously and although not a remap I had a plug box from Tdi-Tuning, said to add 57BHP. I ran this for 3 years on the car with no issues but a very noticeable change in the driving comfort of the car.
In respect of only having a 30BHP increase, I would ask for a look at the graph for the power output with the remap, as it is not all about the BHP but the torque also. With the remap you should hopefully find that across the rev range the output should be a smoother line and slightly up on standard. This as a whole will provide a better smoother driving feel to the car.
Car manufacturers tune cars for general sale across all countries from UK to Romania and although there are fuel standards there will be variations and so engines are tuned to allow the best driving ability for differing fuel quality. The remap generally just retunes the car based on not having to deal with the varying quality of fuel, so as long as you are not driving out to far flung places where fuel quality could be an issue then I would say a remap is safe to do.

Whether you need or wish to do it is a personal choice if you are happy currently then no need to spend the money but if you would like to change the way the car feels under acceleration then go for it. IF you have a remap then you will have to pass this information on if you sell the vehicle, with a tuning box you can always remove it and sell separately.

Personally on the 180 I felt the car was better and drove more responsively, I had no worse MPG and as mentioned no issues reported or noticed by the dealers from it.
 
#8 ·
Actually the increase in torque is very true, oddly enough the Americans (from where I sourced my tune) are focused on HP gains and pretty much ignore torque to the point where I had to do quite a bit of research to find out what it had gone to in my current car. Turbos in particular respond well with torque gains and although I've never had a diesel my understanding was that they were quite robust for tuning purposes, the mechanics I used back when I had the s60R preferred tuning diesels to petrol. In my car the torque has gone to 580Nm which in petrol terms is "wow!" but in diesel terms is "meh"
 
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#9 ·
They are offering 30 BHP and 60 Nm torque. Is that £199? I would just like that bit more oomph! without changing the car. Would the 0-60 time be affected much, as in quicker? I remember tuning, don't laugh, an Allegro with new air filter, different plugs and a new jet. It really flew but at the top end it was rubbish. I tried various jets in the SU carb but never quite achieved what I wanted. Twin carbs may have been better but that meant new inlet and exhaust manifolds which were a pain to get hold of at the time.The 0-60 timing was dramatic and could be felt but after 60 it was like a hand brake had been applied. My MG Maestro was easier to mess with by changing air filter and plugs to get a bit extra power but the electronics held it back and I couldn't alter that. I did do all the supension 25% uprated with 2" lower, sport exhaust from Janspeed and uprated brakes from Mintex. It felt quicker but again I couldn't say by how much. The K&N filter gave it 4 BHP over the paper one as that was tested in a car mag.The car was actually a police version with bigger alternator and different fuelling parts as I found out about two years after buying it. These day's I usually leave things alone but just for fun thought £199 with a remap may with the increase in BHP and torque maybe worth a go.
 
#10 ·
As has been mentioned before it's worth checking with insurance too (depending on how honest you are! :lol:) as the underwriters of my insurance wouldn't accept any performance modifications so I would have to either wait until renewal time or do it and not crash the car in the meantime so that they would never find out :lol:
 
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#11 ·
I am one of those daft honest people who would declare it rather than risk non payout in the event of a crash. I am thinking that I may just stay as I am with the car and put the £199 towards fuel. With the mileages I cover that would probably be 6 months or more. :lol: :lol:
 
#12 ·
I know it's a different car but my current Octavia vrs is remapped albeit a custom rolling road map which added 45hp and I think about 60nm honestly ironed out the flat spot I had at 1200-1700 and made the car much better to drive fuel eco was slightly better by about 5% 50K miles later still no issues (now on 108)

I'd 100% have it done again but then again its out of warranty and I don't drive it like I stole it
 
#13 ·
One of the biggest things holding back cars is the ability to pass the emissions standards required. For example, each engine will be targetted at a set CO2 emissions bracket to save the buyers from paying higher taxes.

This can have an effect all over the engines rev range. They might take out fuel lower down in the revs so it produces less Co2 during a specific part of the emissions testing process etc.

I have a 2.0 HDI peugeot 306. That came with 90hp stock. It now runs 137hp (+51% or so). That has done 48k miles since that map, a lot of them being thrashed about on nice A/B roads.
 
#14 ·
XE123 said:
I have a 2.0 HDI peugeot 306. That came with 90hp stock. It now runs 137hp (+51% or so). That has done 48k miles since that map, a lot of them being thrashed about on nice A/B roads.
One of Peugeot's best.
I had three 306 D Turbos back in the 90's and they were an absolute hoot even with the stock 90Bhp.
The handling was amazing and the last one a V reg had the suspension and brakes off the GTI 6.
Happy days.
:D
 
#15 ·
PhilB said:
One of Peugeot's best.
I had three 306 D Turbos back in the 90's and they were an absolute hoot even with the stock 90Bhp.
The handling was amazing and the last one a V reg had the suspension and brakes off the GTI 6.
Happy days.
:D
Brilliant! It's amazing how many people loved their 306! Funny you should say that about the suspension and brakes. I have done exactly the same thing. GTI-6 rear torsion beam and bilstein shocks with Gti-6 front brakes as well! Great fun to drive.

Anyways, we better not drag this thread into a Peugeot thread! :lol:
 
#17 ·
Hi there new to here! I had my last 180 r sport manual done cost me £199 bhp to 210 improved torque a improved fuel consumption .not sure if I could tell much difference in the actual power improvements. Prob a lot smoother .sold it now for an auto with the remote starter app.plus only got the 163bhp version now if I got another remap it would be to benefit the mpg .got 70 mpg at 70 on the tuned 210hp on this one 163 hp doing 54mpg .hope this help s
 
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#19 ·
JAGDH said:
Vespa said:
Someone on here recommended a tuning specialist a few weeks back and I have had a quote for £199 to increase the Bhp and torque by 30 bhp and 60 Nm torque with imrovements in fuelling by 7-10% It seems reasonable but I am in two minds whether to have it done. Has anyone any sensible comments as to the value of having this done? (emphasis on sensible)
Can you say who the company is and if they are reputable? Are they based near Cheshire?
I haven't used them as this Covid 19 kicked in but one member said he was very pleased.
https://www.cg-remaps.co.uk/
They are about an hours drive away from me.
 
#20 ·
Vespa said:
I haven't used them as this Covid 19 kicked in but one member said he was very pleased.
https://www.cg-remaps.co.uk/
They are about an hours drive away from me.
Makes sense, would be really interested to know the results if you do get it done once COVID is out of the way as they are pretty close to me too.

One thing that seems common between the tuning boxes (like TDI Tuning), or actual remaps like CG look to offer seems to be that most owners can't say with absolute certainty that the car "feels faster" but more like they say it "just feels different in a good way that's hard to explain). I know there are some video reviews of the TDI Tuning box on YouTube for the XE on various engines.

The TDI option is not as permanent but does cost more - They make much bigger claims on power increase by claiming to get the 180 XE to 238 and torque up to 509nm. So in some ways that seems way more dubious to me.

I have read online that actual remaps can be overwritten if Jaguar update your software at any point, not sure if that's true or what CG can do to prevent you having to spend another £199

Here is the TDI box but it costs £296 for the non-Bluetooth version if you use the 20% off code plastered on the top of their site which has been there for weeks now (They provide 7 settings for power increase that you can change on the control unit under the bonnet, you can pay £50 to be able to change those from your phone).

https://tdi-tuning.com/car/jaguar/xe/20-i4-177-bhp-180-ps-132-kw-428-nm-316-lbft/crtd4-twin-channel-diesel-tuning-box-chip

You can fit these yourself pretty easily from the videos I've seen. On the internet there's loads of different opinions on whether a remap is the "proper" way to do it and then others that say either does the same thing, and finally plenty of people who say that neither of them make a noticeable difference.

I've not tried either so can't comment from personal opinion, the above is just what I've gathered from a very brief look around YouTube etc.

One guy who had the TDI tuning box on a petrol 2.0 XE had a really positive review, but it wasn't clear to me if he paid for it himself or if it was an advert but the guy seems really genuine and his channel has loads of videos about his personal XE over the years and the small mods he's done.

There's a video where he talks about the TDI Tuning box (including how he fitted it wrong to begin with lol, from the diesel guide it's a bit more simple than the petrol and 2 connections)



Benefit seems to be you can put it back to stock yourself in half an hour (and re-sell the tuning box if you wanted). His first impression once he has it connected correctly does seem positive, it's a petrol engine here but I believe that diesel turbos are just as tuneable as petrol turbos
 
#22 ·
Apart from applying adjustments to fully programmable ECU modules, the only remapping I've had done was on a Skoda Fabia VRS diesel. It was a full bespoke remap with a nice flat plateaux of torque limited to 400Nm to preserve the dual mass flywheel and a linear throttle response to make the car more drivable in the wet. The effect was not subtle and the car was very noticeably quicker than standard. Fuel economy was a little better than stock, unless you made use of the extra go, but even then, it was still very good.

You can do a before and after timed acceleration run, but I've always favoured a Dyno for tuning. Nice to be able to see what is going on.

Diesels have theoretically more scope for tuning torque as you don't hit a knock limit!
 
#23 ·
I'll write a brief description of the differences between a map and a "Piggy back" plug in box. Both work by increasing fueling and boost. Both achieve the same sort of thing but one I believe is safer than the other.

An ECU basically has a table of what fueling level it should be injecting based on driving conditions (Such as pedal request, measured airflow, boost pressure etc). It also has a table of what vane/wastegate position should be requested on the turbo (to increase or lower boost) based on parameters (Such as desired boost pressure, actual boost pressure, pedal request etc).

A remap changes those fixed values in the tables to increase the boost and fueling. This can be done across a wide rev range by a professional tuner who can pick and choose the areas of the map that they want to increase. For example, they might not touch anything below the 20% throttle position so it keeps the car smooth at picking up from a stop. They may then add 30% or so to the mid range and then perhaps taper off their increase nearer the high end of the RPM so they don't over spin the turbo / cause issues with the longevity of the engine.

Now, a lot of that above comes from the knowledge of the tuner themselves! This is where it gets hazy as you can go to a rubbish mapper who will make a complete botch of the job and ruin your car. You could go to a great one and have a car that last 150k+ miles with 30% more power than standard! Hence needing to look into reviews A LOT! Pick a specialist on that specific car if possible.

A piggyback plug in ECU works differently. These work by "Tweaking" the signals that are sent to the ECU from the cars sensors (Actual boost pressure, and Actual fuel pressure being the main ones.)
As the ECU is now seeing a lower value than what it's requesting, it responds by raising the request to the fuel pressure regulator (to increase fuel pressure) more or by raising the boost pressure more.

Personally I'd rather have an expert map my car that knows the engine, it's limits, where the fueling should be added / taken away rather than having a box plugged in which tricks the ECU by tweaking the sensor inputs.
 
#26 ·
I thought about having mine chipped or tuned. But then I thought why? It's plenty powerful and fast enough. 240 BHP. All I will get is a bit more oomph, then eventually when I get used to that I will want even more.

At the end of the day its the most money I have ever spent on a car and it is more powerful than any other car I have had. So why risk the possibility of doing some damage.
 
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